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Interesting X# discussion 17 Aug 2020 18:42 #15618

  • Loy2888
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  • Hey Guys,

    I came across this website below while google searching and found this discussion about X# very interesting:

    support.west-wind.com/Thread5U70W2EQW.wwt

    Anyone here using Web Connect? Take a look at this link, maybe your opinions, insights, and ideas matters here :)

    Cheers,

    Loy

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    Interesting X# discussion 17 Aug 2020 19:26 #15619

    • FFF
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  • Can't help to notice, that Rick touts rather harsh statements over a product he obviously hasn't looked at even for 5 minutes - e.g. not knowing it's open source tells a lot...
    Regards
    Karl (X# 2.14.0.4; Xide 1.33; W8.1/64 German)

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    Interesting X# discussion 17 Aug 2020 19:34 #15620

    • robert
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  • Karl,
    I don't know if he has looked at the product, but indeed a remark like "And even if it was open source I doubt there would be enough interest for enough energy to push it forward." seems to suggest that he hasn't looked.

    Robert
    XSharp Development Team
    The Netherlands

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    Interesting X# discussion 17 Aug 2020 19:39 #15622

    • FFF
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  • Exactly. And a lot of the reasoning is on the same level...
    Regards
    Karl (X# 2.14.0.4; Xide 1.33; W8.1/64 German)

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    Interesting X# discussion 17 Aug 2020 20:01 #15624

    • Chris
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  • I'd say not focus on the negative :)

    People who have actually used or closely seen X# do point out in the thread that X# is indeed much more than just a language to recompile VFP code, it is using the .Net framework, which is nothing like an "obscure" technology. And it is even possible to use a simple tool to directly translate X# binaries to c# code, this needs to be pointed out as well.

    I think Rick's main point is that people should move away from any kind XBase development in general, the negative comments are not really directed against X# specifically. But that's a very "easy" argument to make, there are many reasons to stay with XBase. One is the existence of a huge amount of (proven to work) code that can't be "simply" rewritten. Another is how beautiful and productive it is for many of us to write XBase code.

    Personally I cannot stand writing or even reading either c++ or c# code, I do all my development in X# (be it for X# itself or for other projects or just personal tools) and stay completely away from c# and hope to always keep doing that. Horses for courses though, I would not tell other people what they MUST do, everyone can just make their own research and decide for themselves what best suits them.
    XSharp Development Team
    chris(at)xsharp.eu

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    Last edit: by Chris.

    Interesting X# discussion 18 Aug 2020 09:36 #15629

    • Terry
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  • Hi Chris
    I agree with you 100%.

    But consider your point “everyone can just make their own research and decide for themselves what best suits them.”

    How long did it take you to reach a level of understanding to enable you make your own decision?

    I won’t say “as things get more and more complex”, rather “as things become ever broader in scope”, so that a “research/make up your own mind” approach takes longer and longer.
    That is why I feel a different approach to things is needed. That is why, in this and other threads, I try to emphasize an approach that puts understanding to the fore, and initially at least, bypasses the need to tackle the details of coding.

    That is the way nature does it. Jump in at the deep end and “grow understanding within it”. Nature is always the best model.

    Terry

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    Interesting X# discussion 18 Aug 2020 12:51 #15632

    • Chris
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  • Hi Terry,

    Oh, it didn't take much time to me, maybe around a couple weeks playing around with .Net and soon realized that this is a perfect platform to develop with (for my own preferences at least). Next decision was the language thing, my preferences would be a pascal or XBase-style language to program with, so that was easy as well. What took a bit more time was developing an IDE that works the way I want it to, under this new environment ;)
    XSharp Development Team
    chris(at)xsharp.eu

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    Interesting X# discussion 18 Aug 2020 13:49 #15636

    • Terry
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  • That's great - the reasoning will be the same for many. But that's fine for all those who are familiar with the "new" (.NET) environment in the first place. What about time spent on CULE, VO etc.? Many newcomers won't have that background to fall back on.

    Terry

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    Interesting X# discussion 18 Aug 2020 14:42 #15637

    • Chris
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  • That's what I meant, after spending a week on CULE (wow, that was over 15 years ago!), I decided .Net is going to be it, with an XBase language.

    If you are talking about moving from a mainstream language to X#, indeed this is not likely to happen people just by themselves. But if a company with X# apps needs to hire more people to maintain and or extend them, it will not be really difficult for a c# programmer to take the job if he/she wants. Almost everything will be the what they are already used to, except for the language syntax. It's nothing like taking c++ programmers and asking them to develop apps in VO or FoxPro...
    XSharp Development Team
    chris(at)xsharp.eu

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    Interesting X# discussion 18 Aug 2020 14:47 #15638

    • wriedmann
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  • Hi all,

    and what nobody should forget about X#: it is very easy to combine it with actually running VO or VFP applications!
    Most of my VO applications are using X# code in the one or the other manner, and I have several X# background services running to connect the data of VO applications to web services or other data.

    Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Riedmann
    Meran, South Tyrol, Italy

    www.riedmann.it - docs.xsharp.it

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    Interesting X# discussion 18 Aug 2020 15:01 #15639

    • OhioJoe
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  • Any VFP pro can look at X# and recite a list of items Robert and Chris have yet to do. OK, fine. But what about all they've ACCOMPLISHED (in less than a year, and with little financial backing)? If I was a VFP guy with 100,000 lines of code and an upgrade mandate, I'd be thanking my lucky stars for stumbling upon X#. Instead of posting uninformed criticism online. (I'm talking about the missive to which you referred, Terry. Not you.)

    It seems to me we're forgetting the one person who matters here: the CUSTOMER, who is either a developer, corporate IT director or end user.

    The developer wants a smoother path from his legacy language to the mainstream, i.e. VO/Foxpro to .Net. At the same time he wants timely, effective support. Read only two or three of the hundreds of threads on this forum, and you'll see that bugs, performance issues are resolved within hours. And where there's nothing to resolve there's always a helpful bit of code. Where else on the planet will you get better support? Who else has forged farther down the VFP-to-.Net conversion route? (And remains in business?) No one, as far as I can tell.

    The IT manager wants something mainstream, which facilitates recruitment, collaboration, troubleshooting and end-user support. X# delivers.

    End users want only to get their work done. They care nothing about our discussion here; they just want it to work. Every day. Are they getting it? Mine certainly are.

    So Robert and Chris, don't be deterred. You're delivering results. Every day. Carry on!
    Joe Curran
    Ohio USA

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    Interesting X# discussion 18 Aug 2020 15:47 #15642

    • wriedmann
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  • Hi Joe,
    please let me add something very important: I have a lot, really a lot of code.
    Neither me nor my customers can afford it to rewrite it all - only a migration to a compatible platform is possible.
    So it may be sound hard, but I have no other choice.
    And it is only thanks to the X# team that I have a choice!
    Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Riedmann
    Meran, South Tyrol, Italy

    www.riedmann.it - docs.xsharp.it

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    Interesting X# discussion 18 Aug 2020 16:17 #15647

    • lumberjack
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  • Hi Wolfgang/All

    wriedmann wrote: Hi all,
    and what nobody should forget about X#: it is very easy to combine it with actually running VO or VFP applications!
    Most of my VO applications are using X# code in the one or the other manner, and I have several X# background services running to connect the data of VO applications to web services or other data.

    I am a cowboy type of programmer and I can emphasize what Wolfgang is saying... My motto bite of more than you can chew and chew it well...

    I was monitoring the post-VO path and was tasked in 2010 to develop a system in .NET. Knowing nothing about .NET I used Vulcan.NET using the trial version that expired in 2/3 months if I remember correctly. Needless to say yes I had some steep learning cliffs, but within 2 months before I had to pay I had a running system from scratch. That system was converted to X# in 2017 with less than 1 day of effort. Well it is not actually a run of the mill system, I developed the system to actually developed my data-driven environment (dynamic applications I think the VFP guys calls it). I just have to thank the X# development team for the great effort they have put into the product that I trust. Needless to say I have not touched VS 1 day for that system, although I had the frustration to suddenly become a c# "expert" and I hate every moment of it. So far so good, I have come to the ight place and am proud to say my preferred language of choice is X# all the way.
    ______________________
    Johan Nel
    Boshof, South Africa

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