TOPIC:

Dear development team,

X# should have some advantage over other development tools, to make it interesting non only for Xbase programmers, but also for new customers coming maybe from C# or VB.NET.

The strongest advantage Clipper had over its competitors (many years ago) was the possibility to write easily and fast business database applications.

Since I'm convinced that the future of business applications are WPF/MVVM applications, and therefore X# should support them better than any other development system:
- deliver base classes for ViewModel, Command and other needed classes
- support enhanced code generation features in the compiler like automatic generation of NotifyPropertyChanged for ViewModels (such a feature would be a killer feature, I think, because it saves a LOT of time and errors)
- samples and base applications

Of course much of this code is available in C# on the internet, but it would make it easier when integrated already in the base product. And of course I'm willing to contribute code.

Wolfgang

Hi Wolfgang,

I'm not the DevTeam but now have very good experiences with X#.

- deliver base classes for ViewModel, Command and other needed classes

These are already there. MvvmLight from GalaSoft or Prism form MS. Why invent the wheel twice.

- support enhanced code generation features in the compiler like automatic generation of NotifyPropertyChanged for ViewModels (such a feature would be a killer feature, I think, because it saves a LOT of time and errors)

I have this on Ctrl-H in XIDE. BTW: X# works now correctly with CallerMemberName

- samples and base applications

That's what I try to provide for Cologne.

Frank

Wolfgang,

Thanks for the suggestions:

> Base Classes for Viewmodel, Command etc.
I am not sure if it is a good idea to add these to our product. There are many solutions already on the market.

> Enhanced code generation

This is something that is already on the market too, in products such as PostSharp.
It might be a good idea to add this to X#, but I do not think it should have the highest priority. We have other things to take care off.

> Samples and apps

I agree that we need more samples. We will come up with more examples in the coming months, but we could also use some help there. If you have anything you would like to share, please let me know.

Robert

Hi Robert,

> Base Classes for Viewmodel, Command etc.
I am not sure if it is a good idea to add these to our product. There are many solutions already on the market.

This is true. But one to find this out looses a lot of time reading, trying, understanding.
A preselection would save a lot of time.

>This is something that is already on the market too, in products such as PostSharp.
It might be a good idea to add this to X#, but I do not think it should have the highest priority. We have other things to take care off.

I know there is PostSharp, but this is a separate product with a separate (high) cost, and if something like this can be integrated into X# it would help a lot. And it would help to reduce dependencies from other software.
I agree that other things are more important currently, but IMHO it is a good option for the future.

I agree that we need more samples. We will come up with more examples in the coming months, but we could also use some help there. If you have anything you would like to share, please let me know.

I'll prepare a few small samples and send them to you.

Saving time to users would increment the (already high) value of X# a lot, as time is limited for all of us.

Wolfgang

Hi Frank,

These are already there. MvvmLight from GalaSoft or Prism form MS. Why invent the wheel twice.

I know they are there. But a preselection of some very basic classes would save a lot for beginners. And people not liking them can always select other frameworks.

The GUI classes of VO were not the best ones, but they were there and people used them.

If X# can provide such classes, maybe in X# language, most starters will use them.

There is so much to learn in the framework, in the language, that predefined classes can save a lot of time and let people start earlier.

Wolfgang

Couldn't agree more. One of the major problems .net produces for beginners are the tons of available things. Tons of buzz words, usually not carrying much "content", tons of "do foo but not bar" etc.
I for one would probably never have made the jump into VO without the MDI Sample. Out of the box, it works, through the magic of the DBServer classes. Would be nice to see an equivalent on X# - a working sample to connect to my Postgres server, showing a simple WPF form with some basic controls and the code to link them (via "model" )

Karl

Karl,

you're right. I'll try to do something like that in the near future. But if I remember right i did on the last conferences already ...

On the other side: The SouthSeaAdventure showed how not to do it. They mixed GUI and BL too much.

Frank

Hi Frank,

On the other side: The SouthSeaAdventure showed how not to do it. They mixed GUI and BL too much

this is true, but this sample helped a lot of people to start with VO - including myself.

And my VO programs behave the same way until today.

Current samples should help people to get started the right way, and it should not be too complex to understand.

Wolfgang

Frank Maraite wrote: Karl,
On the other side: The SouthSeaAdventure showed how not to do it. They mixed GUI and BL too much.
Frank

That's why i referred to the "Standard-MDI" Somehow it's almost tragic, remembering all the bashing the "Access/Assign" automatics got - while in the end providing a "poor man's" view, separating AND connecting the db from the UI with only some lines of code...

Looking forward to your template!

Karl